Entrevista a Enrique González Duro
2014
Entrevista a Enrique González Duro con motivo de la investigación para el proyecto Rien los dioses.
Enrique González Duro (La Guardia de Jaén, Jaén, España, 1939). Psiquiatra, profesor universitario, historiador y escritor, ha trabajado durante más de 30 años en la asistencia pública, anti-institucional de los años 70. Dicho movimiento, que mantiene ciertos puntos de contacto con la antipsiquiatría, ponía en duda las técnicas de la psiquiatría tradicional, proponiendo alternativas, tanto de tipo teórico como práctico.. González Duro puso en marcha en 1973 el primer Hospital de Día de España. En 1981 se hizo cargo de la reforma psiquiátrica de la provincia de Jaén. Trabajó en el hospital público Gregorio Marañón de Madrid hasta su jubilación, colaborando también asiduamente en prensa, radio y televisión. Ha publicado más de 30 libros, y aunque sus intereses literarios son diversos, están vinculados de una forma u otra a su profesión. Abarcan desde los temas estrictamente científicos («Psiquiatría y sociedad autoritaria» -1978 Ed Akal-, «La paranoia» -Ed. 1991 Temas de Hoy-, «Historia de la psiquiatría» -1987 Ed Libertarias-Prodhufi-), hasta temas de actualidad. («El miedo en la posguerra» -2003 Ed Oberon, «Los psiquiatras de Franco: Los rojos no estaban locos» -2008, Ed. Península, «La máscara de los poderosos» 1999. Ed. Libertarias-Prodhufi-) . Y la biografía psicológica de personajes históricos («Biografía interior de Juan Ramón Jiménez» -Ed. Libertarias 2002-Prodhufi, «La sombra de lo general» -Ed. Debate 2005-), faceta en la que destaca por su amenidad, su notoria agudeza y un escrupuloso respeto por la verdad histórica. Fue autor, junto a tres compañeros, del «Informe sobre el Centro de Atención Psiquiátrica Penitenciaria de Madrid» en 1985, promovido por la AEN, Asociación Española de Neuropsiquiatría, cuya publicación y difusión mediática supuso el cierre definitivo del Psiquiátrico Penitenciario de Carabanchel.
«El origen del informe (sobre el Centro Asistencial Psiquiátrico Penitenciario de Madrid en 1985) es la propuesta de la Asociación (AEN), que en aquel tiempo estaba formada por gente que había luchado mucho por la Reforma Psiquiátrica, y estaba muy sensibilizada por denunciar todo aquello que era más abusivo, partiendo de la base de que toda Institución psiquiátrica manicomial era abusiva. Dentro de eso, había unas que eran particularmente abusivas, y ahí nos centramos más, y se hicieron varios informes, con distinta suerte. (…)
Hablamos con todos los médicos, que estaban allí todos, no había faltado ninguno a pesar de ser un sábado, todos. (…) Eran psiquiatras muy tradicionales, muy clásicos, muy a la antigua y por tanto su concepción de la psiquiatría era: diagnostico y dar tratamiento, que, no incluía «electroshock» pero por esa cosa que te digo, de que eso podía trascender al exterior y eso dar mala fama al centro, que ya la tenía de por sí.(…) Había psiquiatras y psiquiatras, como ocurre, los más jóvenes, los que éramos mas jóvenes entonces, en general, éramos mucho mas críticos y no estábamos dispuestos a seguir las pautas tradicionales de ser guardianes del orden público. Como médicos, lo que teníamos que hacer es ayudar a los enfermos, no mantener el orden. (…)
(En el Centro Asistencial Psiquiátrico Penitenciario de Madrid) El orden estaba perfectamente mantenido, allí no se movía ni una mosca. Cosa que para nosotros, por otra parte, era un signo de la falta de vida de una Institución. ¿Cómo puede ser que en una Institución con 210 internos, no se oiga ni una mosca?. Es señal de que el orden era absoluto. Y si le unes a eso que son enfermos mentales, que se supone popularmente que son enfermos muy ruidosos, muy escandalosos, más llamativo resultaba. Es decir, el problema del orden no ha sido un problema de los manicomios, de los centros psiquiátricos, el orden lo han mantenido. Precisamente la patología que a nosotros nos interesaba era la patología del orden. Mientras más orden, peor estaban.»
2014
Interview with Enrique González Duro on the occasion of the investigation of the Rien los dioses project.
Enrique González Duro (The Guard of Jaén, Jaén, Spain, 1939). A psychiatrist, university professor, historian and writer, he has worked for more than 30 years in public assistance, having been one of the leaders of the anti-institutional movement of the 1970s. This movement, which maintains certain points of contact with Anti- questioned and posed an alternative both theoretical and practical to the techniques and texts of traditional psychiatry. González Duro launched in 1973 the first Day Hospital of Spain. In 1981 he took over the psychiatric reform of the province of Jaén. He worked in the public hospital «Gregorio Marañón» of Madrid until his retirement, also collaborating regularly in the press, radio and television. He has published more than 30 books, and although his literary interests are diverse, they are linked of one form or another to his profession. They cover from the strictly scientific themes («Psychiatry and authoritarian society» -1978 Ed Akal-, «The paranoia» -1991 Ed. Topics of Hoy-, «History of psychiatry» -1987 Ed Libertarias-Prodhufi- ), to current issues («The fear in the post-war» -2003 Ed Oberon, «The psychiatrists of Franco: The reds were not crazy» -2008, Ed. Peninsula, «The mask of the powerful» 1999. Ed. Libertarias-Prodhufi-). And the psychological biography of historical figures («Interior Biography of Juan Ramón Jiménez» -2002 Ed. Libertarias-Prodhufi, «The shadow of the general» -2005 Ed. Debate-), facet in which it stands out for its amenity, his notorious sharpness and a scrupulous respect for historical truth. He was the author, along with three colleagues, of the «Report on the Prison Psychiatric Care Center of Madrid» in 1985, promoted by the AEN, Spanish Association of Neuropsychiatry, whose publication and media dissemination meant the definitive closure of the Psychiatric of Carabanchel that same year.
Transcript (partial) of the interview realized to ENRIQUE GONZÁLEZ DURO
«The origin of the report (on the Prison Psychiatric Assistance Center of Madrid in 1985) is the proposal of the Association (AEN), which at that time was formed by people who had fought hard for the Psychiatric Reform, and was very sensitive to report everything that was more abusive, based on the fact that every asylum psychiatric institution was abusive.There were some that were particularly abusive, and there we focused more, and made several reports, with different luck. (…)
We spoke with all the doctors, who were all there, there was no missing one despite being a Saturday, all. They were very traditional psychiatrists, very classic, very old-fashioned and therefore their conception of psychiatry was: diagnosis and treatment, which did not include «electroshock» but for that thing that I say, that could transcend the outside and that give bad reputation to the center, which already had it by itself. There were psychiatrists and psychiatrists, as it happens, the younger ones, the younger we were then, in general, we were much more critical and we were not willing to follow the traditional patterns of being public order keepers.As doctors, what we had to do is to help the sick, not to keep order. (…)
(In the Prison Psychiatric Care Center of Madrid) The order was perfectly maintained, there was not a fly there, which for us, on the other hand, was a sign of the lack of life of an institution. That in an Institution with 210 inmates, you do not hear a fly? It is a sign that the order was absolute. And if you add to that they are mentally ill, they are popularly supposed to be very noisy, very scandalous… The problem of order has not been a problem of the asylums, of the psychiatric centers, the order has maintained it. Precisely the pathology that we were interested in was the pathology of order. The more they ordered, the worse they were. (…)
At the bottom of the Prison Psychiatry, if the dome was the doctor, and I suppose the chaplain would be there, too. The last step was the pure and hard patient.There were three scales of patients: , who had a «status»of psychiatric auxiliaries or a similar function, then, the privileged patients, and the last, those who were «poor devils», and within the «poor devils», the that they had no money were the worst. There was a striking social stratification. (…)
I do not know if crimes are a symptom of a psychiatric pathology or not. I have not seen as a psychiatrist any serial killer, I have seen people who killed someone for something very concrete … But I have seen little, in reality little, and in series, none. What I am questioning, not denying because I do not know, I do not have elements, is that if (Manuel Delgado Villegas) was a serial killer. I go a little further: I say that if serial killers really exist, out of the movies and out of the novels. The ones I know are the soldiers in the war: Those, technically, are serial killers. Obviously anyone can kill, it is implicit in human nature, aggressiveness is there: wars have always been admitted socially, and blessed in many cases. I want to say that we often need a scapegoat: point this man was not a scapegoat? And he also benefited of being one, and he himself fomented the myth. It is very difficult to distinguish the reality of the legend » (…)
Year2014Produced byMinisterio de Educación, Cultura y Deporte Gobierno de España
Share